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Earl   AST Forum  

Is there any 100% sealed cover instead of the API-650H IFR?

Wednesday, August 06, 2003   By: Kokuryu_2000@hotmail.com
I am looking for a 100% sealed (or 100% air-tight) system instead of the conventional API-650H IFR? Can anyone tell me: 1. what is it? 2. a couple of suppliers WEB site? 3. your experience with it

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Thursday, August 07, 2003   By: Andy East HMT
Your request is interesting. It should be noted that you make many enquiries into the AST forum. [Edited] Could you please provide specific further information on your requirement, [[Edited] new IFR technology [Edited] in the right direction. [Edited]


August 7 2003

This posting was edited by Earl. The company that placed the solicitation is purposely not being mentioned in this warning notice. This is their first formal warning.

However, this is not the first time I have edited this company's name for their unauthorized solicitations of forum users business. The rules of the forum are clearly spelled out. What is unfortunate is this type of behavior is un-professional and is expected from unruly children not a company. I hope this company becomes professional and starts helping the forum users.

Reason for editing was solicitation of a forum users business under the disguise of the forum. Advertising is not permitted in postings. Questions about advertising should be directed to Earl at the email address below.


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Sunday, August 10, 2003   By: Kokuryu_2000@hotmail.com
Andy, sorry of your reply. You may contact my email instead.

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Wednesday, August 06, 2003   By: David R
You can use a closed system, nitrogen blanketed tank.

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Wednesday, August 06, 2003   By: Steve Braune
Yes. A tank constructed to API-650, Appendix F may suit your needs, but the maximum pressure is limited to 2.5 psig. Alternatively, you could use API-620 for an AST with a design pressure of up to 15 psi.

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Wednesday, August 06, 2003   By: John D.
I thought there is a membrane kind of config claims 100% vapor containment. How does it work? replacfe the IFR with a baloon like membrane or "rubber skin?

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Wednesday, August 06, 2003   By: David R
All the vapor dome tanks with bladders that I have seen have been retrofitted with aluminum IFRs. Why do you need a closed system? Safety? Emissions? Odors?

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Sunday, August 10, 2003   By: Kokuryu_2000@hotmail.com
Dave, BTW, what is the config of bladders"? history? are they 100% vapor containment? why they were replaced by IFR which is by no means 100%?

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Sunday, August 10, 2003   By: David R
I think the bladders were replaced because they did not last very long, or were not compatible with current products (it's tough to find an elastomer compatible with gasolien, ethanol, crude oil, jet fuel, etc). If they leaked even small amounts of vapors where they joined the tank shell, there could be problems in the vapor space above. Also, storage facilities could meet EPA rules with an aluminum IFR (contact or non-contact). You have still not told us why you need 100% containment??

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Monday, August 11, 2003   By: Kokuryu_2000@hotmail.com
It is a matter of client inquiry. SInce none of the IFR can claim the FULL containment. I was asked by our client to see whether there is any better thanthe current IFR (contacts or none-contacts). That is it. Do you know who makes the Baddered seals?

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Friday, August 29, 2003   By: g.van.meijeren@econosto.com
Bladders are certainly an option. We have multiple installations worldwide to the full satisfaction of the customers involved. Will send you some more details by E-mail. See also section 27 at following link: http://www.econosto.com/E4/res/e4plus/welkom.pdf

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Sunday, August 10, 2003   By: Kokuryu_2000@hotmail.com
Simple. None of the IFR's can claim to have 100% vapor containment

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Thursday, August 14, 2003   By: stephen.seow@dynaglass.com.sg
Dynaglass IFR is a "Full contact type" FRP sandwich type roof. The floater is manufactured and installed in the tank by a special panented jointing system that need no mechanical fasteners. This makes the floater completly vapor-tight and 100% leak proof. However, there are a number of tank seals available from a number of suppliers and the best one claimed to be around 95 to 98% efficiency. Depending on the tank design, some may have gauging system that needs to be fitted with sliding seals. If electronic gauging is used then the problem will not arise. Feel free to contact me for further information.

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Friday, August 15, 2003   By: David R
Stephen - 1) Yours is a commercial posting, not in keeping with the spirit of this forum. 2) Do you have documentation and US EPA agreement that your seams are vapor tight? You should be careful not to mislead potential USA customers and other worldwide purchasers that use the US EPA guidelines that the US EPA agrees with your "completely leak proof" and "vapor tight" claims. To my knowledge, the API and EPA have not tested your designs, nor have any API certified laboratories. 3) As far as I know, only welded seams in steel floating roofs are vaporless and those are probably vacuum box tested. What happens over time to your FRP materials and the joints? Are the joints dependent on field cleaning and application of adhesive? How are the round edges sealed? How are the seams field tested? How resistant is the material and glue to various chemicals and physical stresses?

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Wednesday, August 20, 2003   By:
David's comments are 100% valid. The MFGer claims are totally different from the real world out there. And most of all, has the stand org reviewed, tested and aproved the design? So, Stephen, please provide further info.

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Published on ast-forum.com


Atmospheric Design Pressure
By: Fathi [46]

The whole story is to avoid brittle fracture=

Test temperature shall be equal or warmer than Minimum Metal Design temperature at Test pressure.

I would limit my minimum testing temperature for a tank (or even for a vessel or a piping system) by the =

Temp = maximum of [ Min(lower shell) , Min(shell# 2) ....Min (Upper shell) ]

For a Shell# i the minimum is function ( of shell tickness , Material group ) and this can be found in API 650 , Fig 2-1

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