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Honeycomb Panel IFR

Wednesday, April 12, 2017   By: Dunedin [1843] 1 Stars
I an interested to hear the views on the honeycomb internal floating roof panels design. I understand that there have been issues with gluing the panels and that only some manufacturers have overcome this by offering an all welded construction. What have been the problems and how have they been addressed?

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Thursday, April 13, 2017   By: ITS [1678] 4 Stars
I am not familiar with honeycomb construction in ast roofing. What is the material used in roof honeycomb construction?

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Saturday, April 15, 2017   By: davidr@fast.net [39] 5 Stars
Honeycomb panels used on internal floating roofs are a sandwich construction consisting of an upper and lower skin with core in between. The materials are most often aluminum. In this scenario, the core is usually 0.003 thick aluminum foil expanded to a six sided shape similar to what bees make in their hives, hence the name honeycomb. The top and bottom skins are 0.16 minimum, sometimes as thick as 0.040. The core may be of solid aluminum foil or it may have perforations. The perforations allow the entire panel to be sniff tested while the non-perforated core isolates each cell preventing communication. The overall thickness must be at least 1 and is often 1 1/2. The core is never welded to the skins but is instead glued to the skins. If this glue gives way the panel is changed into a very weak collection of materials. In order to join panels together, the perimeter of the panel is surrounded with an extruded aluminum shape that has horizontal legs above and below the panel skins and vertical legs to accept some clamp or fastener. Some vendors glue these edge closures to the panel skins, others weld them to the skins. When welding is used, the skins are usually thicker than when glue is used. Welding is a more positive method of sealing vs glue especially at the corners. Glue is subject to degradation from heat and chemical exposure, allowing product into the panel. Welding may damage the inside glue bond but makes a better seal against liquid intrusion although weld porosity allows vapors inside. Panels so constructed are fairly strong except at the joints between the panels, so vendors stagger seams or use a herringbone pattern. Long runs of seams are subject to high bending stresses and may not develop the full strength of the panel. The joints between the panels deck seams are a source of leak between the liquid below and the vapor space above. Deck seams are either bolted or welded. Bolted seams have a high loss rate, welded seams are more expensive but have zero losses assuming they are tested vacuum box, etc.

This is not meant to be an exhaustive or complete description of whats in the marketplace and I may have missed important descriptions or items. Please take this as a very brief introduction and verify any and all specifics while reviewing alternatives.

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Saturday, April 15, 2017   By: ITS [1678] 4 Stars
Thank you for the beautiful explanation of honeycomb panel for IFR ast. :

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Sunday, April 16, 2017   By: Dunedin [1843] 1 Stars
This is probably the most comprehensive review of the honeycomb IFR that I have ever seen. I am still taking it in and will certainly get back to you if I have any questioms.

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Sunday, April 16, 2017   By: Dunedin [1843] 1 Stars
As I said before your analysis of the IFR is comprehensive but I do have a question: Welding may damage the inside glue bond..... I am not sure what you mean by may surely any welding would damage the glue unless one is used that can withstand the high welding temperature and I doubt if any such glue is commercially available? Could this an inherent problem with all honeycomb IFRs and has yet to be overcome?

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Sunday, April 16, 2017   By: davidr@fast.net [39] 5 Stars
To my knowledge there is no glue that can withstand the heat of welding. It is certainly possible to minimize the issues though. The skin conducts heat very quickly and the glue bond at the weld line is about all that is compromised when using an optimized weld process. Pressurizing the cells from the heat of welding pushes gas into the weld bead, contributing to weld porosity which creates potential vapor paths into the panel.
Perforated cell walls help dissipate the pressure in the cells under the weld bead, preventing blow-back into the weld pool, improving the weld process and reducing weld porosity.

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Published on ast-forum.com


Atmospheric Design Pressure
By: Fathi [46]

The whole story is to avoid brittle fracture=

Test temperature shall be equal or warmer than Minimum Metal Design temperature at Test pressure.

I would limit my minimum testing temperature for a tank (or even for a vessel or a piping system) by the =

Temp = maximum of [ Min(lower shell) , Min(shell# 2) ....Min (Upper shell) ]

For a Shell# i the minimum is function ( of shell tickness , Material group ) and this can be found in API 650 , Fig 2-1

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