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Earl

    • Firewall Capacity Volume - Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - BABRTs 973 [53] 5 Stars
      Can someone point me to where the firewall capacity is determined? I have always understood this to be shell capacity.. But client is saying it is based on fill capacity.
      Have a tank with a shell capacity of 88,000 bbls but a fill capacity of 80,000 bbls. I am saying the firewalls should be designed for 88,000. Client says why not 80 as that is all the tank will ever be filled with.
      Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

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      • Re: Firewall Capacity Volume - Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - DavidR@Fast.net [39] 5 Stars
        The client can in the future change their procedures. Go for the tank capacity. NFPA 30 I believe. I think there is an additional percentage over capacity you normally add to account for a rain event during a catastrophic tank failure.

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        • Re: Firewall Capacity Volume - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - DavidR@Fast.net [39] 5 Stars
          Reading NFPA 30 again, I find that it does not really define capacity. However, 2.3.2.3.2 says The volumetric capacity of the diked area shall not be
          less than the greatest amount of liquid that can be released from the largest tank within the diked area, assuming a full tank. and 2.3.2.1.1 refers to Tank Capacity while table 5.3.2.1 refers to Operating Liquid Capacity and Appendix A contains this: An aboveground storage tank dike is normally sized to contain the entire contents of the largest single tank within it. Some designs incorporate sufficient freeboard additional capacity to accommodate precipitation or fire-fighting water. The amount of this freeboard is usually governed by local conditions. I have seen this specified as an additional percentage or a set dimension. Good luck with your quest, I suggest that the local regulations be found and the owners insurance and risk team be consulted.

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      • Re: Firewall Capacity Volume - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - CNT [492] 2 Stars
        I have seen full shell capacity used and I have seen fill capacity used. I think you can easily argue that fill capacity is acceptable if there are overflow vents cut in the shell or there is some other physical restriction. I think you can successfully argue that it would be acceptable if there is a sufficient alarm system / procedure that wouldnt let the tank get that full. I think this is a case where the owner could make the call on which to use and you just need to document why you used what you did it.

        Most places you have to account for rain water as well. 110% of the tank capacity has been an industry rule of thumb, but some places actually call out a rain event in their fire codes. Typically a 25-yr 24-hr event. I have gone to using the greater of the rain event or the 110% just to cover my bases. I have seen several requirements for adequate capacity or some such terminology, which lets you guess what adequate means and wait for them to fine you if you are wrong. That is another reason I go with the greater of the two above.

        If you are building new, I think it is best to build the dike walls up to get the most capacity now. We all know they can get erroded down and lose capacity and it is costly to build them up later. If you are working with an existing installation you might need to do more thinking and it could be that your dike capacity becomes a limiting factor on your tank fill height.

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        • Re: Firewall Capacity Volume - Wednesday, February 22, 2012 - DavidR@Fast.net [39] 5 Stars
          Did some more research - Dikes are for spill containment, dictated by environmental rules and In the USA the EPA SPCC rule 40CFR112 call it shell height, and owners have lost the argument and been fined when they wanted to use the height to an overflow. The additional over and above the shell height is state or local regulated but +10% is usually a good place to start.

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          • Re: Firewall Capacity Volume - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - DavidR@Fast.net [39] 5 Stars
            For purposes of the SPCC requirements, secondary containment for bulk storage facilities must be constructed to at least provide for the capacity of the largest single tank with sufficient freeboard for precipitation. EPA believes that the proper standard of sufficient freeboard to contain precipitation is that amount necessary to contain a 25-year, 24-hour storm event. While EPA believes that a 25-year, 24-hour storm event is appropriate for most facilities and protective of the environment, it did not make it rule standard because of the difficulty and expense for some facilities of securing recent information concerning such storm events at this time.

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            • Re: Firewall Capacity Volume - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - DavidR@Fast.net [39] 5 Stars
              In the definitions section of SPCC, section 122.2 there is this: Storage capacity of a container means the shell capacity of the container.

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              • Re: Firewall Capacity Volume - Thursday, February 23, 2012 - BABR:s 973 [53] 5 Stars
                Thank you both so much for your input.

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